Looper - Can A Film Break Its Own Rules?

We've all been told that a story needs rules and after the rules are made, they can't be broken. But there's always an exception. Today I'm looking at one.
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  • Are you a screenwriter looking to generate ideas, give and receive feedback, and talk stories with other writers? Then join the community in the Facebook Group! It’s free and open to all screenwriters. Join here: facebook.com/groups/644895109269258/

    Tyler MoweryTyler MoweryYıl önce
    • Oh come on! this is such a cop out. this is like when religious apologists fail to defend the technicality and realism of their story and they make excuse by saying that it's all metaphorical and try to divert the critic's attention to the message instead. this results the might of their divine constantly regressing.

      Gram TGram TAylar önce
    • The fact that someone that likes this movie is screenwriter is outright disheartening. Someone skilled can send the same message you see in this mess of a movie and describe in the video... but written in a way that is not illogical to the point of being immersion breaking. This is the future of film writing I see. Relentless mediocrity praised by the same circle of people.

      Kaiyanwang82Kaiyanwang82Aylar önce
    • Does the Rainmaker kill Joe's wife in every timeline? That's the key.

      aerbankaerbank5 aylar önce
  • How the hell sarah knows about the loopers? It's hard to kill some one in the future and so they send them back in time,then loopers kill them in the past. But... When the mobster came to close the loop of Joe they just kill his wife(that Asian Lady).just like that.and this doesn't make any sense.

    the untouchable onethe untouchable oneGün önce
  • "Ignorance is bliss." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gray

    JZ's Best FriendJZ's Best Friend3 gün önce
  • I decided to watch this for clarity... But now I'm more confused...oh well that's time travel

    Bouzo LastnameBouzo Lastname4 gün önce
  • I always considered it to be the grandfather paradox. Old joe was created, old joe went back in time to change the future, henceforth old joe couldn't have been created, henceforth old joe couldn't have gone back to change the future, henceforth old joe is created. And so on. After an what could have been endless loops the fabric of time said no more and needed to correct the paradox so it showed young joe what would happen so he could kill himself and end the loop. Hence why the movie is called Looper. Its a paradoxical time loop

    Kayla HughesKayla Hughes8 gün önce
  • I have a thought... Joe actually helped the kid like his mom and made him good if he hadn’t met him he would probably kill his mom and closes the loops in the future so it kinda does make sense... all this is debatable nothing is for sure but in some way the movie does make sense when you think deeper

    K 99K 9910 gün önce
  • I really think this movie should have been a two parter story. The first movie would revolve around young Joe after he closes his loop, we see his 30 years in Shanghai, about 3/4 of the way through the movie we get introduced to old Joe, movie ends with him getting zapped into the past, old Joe and young Joe have the stare down, roll credits. Then the second movie would be what we have, just with less flashbacks and flesh everything out a little more. Then if they wanted to do a trilogy, the third movie could be the new timeline and we see what happens to the kid and if Joe managed to change the overall outcome.

    Taylor WachachaTaylor Wachacha15 gün önce
  • regardless of how old Joe's timeline will still kill him in 30 years because there's no possible way for that timeline to exist without doing so - the fact that the rainmaker doesn't exist anymore is what enables that timeline to happen in the first place. The main difference between the two is that when he leaves to complete the loop - no one will kill his wife.

    Sammiekay 055Sammiekay 05518 gün önce
  • i dont think old joe makes the rainmaker, i think in a different world something else happens to the mum and he turns bad. I.e she says the farm is getting more dangerous and she is vulnerable. Her moving away with the money secures a better life for Cid. Therefore he won't turn bad.

    Adam SorrellAdam Sorrell19 gün önce
  • There is much theories about time , when we watch time travel movies or animes each one of them depends on one of these theories , this movies was actually believing that each person keep being connected to its past self and can have his memories or path changed if his past self changes ( similar theory in back to the futur ) , but we can see some other ones who believe that each point of time holds a distinct person , ( for example even if Jo killed himself his futur self wont be affected because he already had his path ( he is a distinct point )) , there is also another theory that we see ( like on attack on titan manga ) which says that each point of time holds a distinct person , but the causal loop will be never be broken ( for example Jo will kill his futur self everytime and this thing will never be changed and keep happening in a loop )

    Mohamed KaramMohamed Karam23 gün önce
  • Why does what's his name look so different. Watch The Dark Knight rises and you'll see a big difference. Hard loving? Drugs?

    fkalffkalf24 gün önce
  • Im just here to know why she touched his hairs (lightly rubbed )when joe died . ( because thats what her mother used to do as told earlier in the movie when joe was a naked girl with small tities (he told that girl that his mother used to do it ) )

    THE COLLECTIVETHE COLLECTIVE25 gün önce
  • Wise explaination

    etc ariefetc arief27 gün önce
  • 1. Question. Can the person who invented time machine travel back in time and just make another time machine? (because he obviously knows how to make one) 2. Is it possible to travel to future? (Talking about the movie of course )

    AndroxusAndroxus29 gün önce
  • Can someone tell me what I need to know about this movie. I was supposed to watch this movie and now my client is asking if I liked it but still haven’t watched it

    CkayCkayAylar önce
    • Too little too late

      JRussoCJRussoC28 gün önce
  • I guess yu dont have the capability to think beyond this.... Actually it makes sense ... But i can't really put it through with words ....its just multiple timelines are dependent upon each other.. lets see if yu could understand this... The single time line gets splitted into two time lines where in one of which the young joe kills his older self and on the other line he doesn't kill his older self.... So until that point the time line hasn't been splitted.....so once when he comes back to that exact point.. they both are currently in a third time line which is newly created when he comes back and makes changes from that exact point of the time line where the previously split up two time lines are....... . Got it??..

    Dinesh GunasekaranDinesh GunasekaranAylar önce
  • I think because if the ending.. The entire movie stopped being a never ending paradox... What a movie,though😍😍😍

    g. madhang. madhanAylar önce
  • It’s no Hot Tub Time Machine that’s for sure

    Jr BeansJr BeansAylar önce
  • I looped back 8 years to watch the movie on opening night.

    PowerOf OnePowerOf OneAylar önce
  • Hey it's goes the same with predestination...

    Shanmukha VardhanShanmukha VardhanAylar önce
  • sometimes I feel like people don't listen to character dialogue and how they are tryna convey a scene and explain their world....he explained it perfectly in the dinner...but YOUR idea of time travel didn't match up so it has a plot hole😆

    cerabetaZ MarcicerabetaZ MarciAylar önce
  • What anoys me the most is that it's not possible for old Joe to escape. Regardless of the films story, nothing changes, it's a circle that goes around and around again, their is nothing that happens in this movie that should allow old Joe to escape and return to the past

    Davis SpackerDavis SpackerAylar önce
  • *If Star Wars' laws now state that anyone can be a Jedi, don't need any training in order to go up against a well trained Dark Jedi and that ships can just hyperspace through other ships or anything they want.... Looper really isn't so bad....*

    Undercover MercuryUndercover MercuryAylar önce
  • that's it I'm just watching the movie

    belka tesfjgvbelka tesfjgvAylar önce
  • Simpler explanation: it's a movie written by arrogant dumb people that think that are intelligent for arrogant dumb people that consider themselves smart. Shooting this movie and appreciating it is just a ... loop of Dunning-Kruger.

    Kaiyanwang82Kaiyanwang82Aylar önce
  • Well stated. Revisit this movie please.

    Billy LewisBilly LewisAylar önce
  • One could argue that "old Joe" did not infact exist untill he showed up in the past. We saw in the original timeline that "Old Joe" remembered, his older self showed up bound and gagged, like eveyrone else had. I mean the movie shows us another looper who comes back and is not killed by his younger self and later is seen loosing fingers, limbs, tounge etc because the others are torturing the younger version but say that that did not kill him in order to not "mess things up". If they tortured him to the point where he can barley walk, how would he have been able to show up back in time and be able to run away? I think the "future" versions are just just temperal dublicates from a "what if" future that are, on a fundamental level, connected to what happens to the younger version Short version: It doesn't make any sense. But it's still a cool movie!

    Alexander IngetAlexander IngetAylar önce
    • You can make a story about anything and however you want it when it comes to time travel and will never make sense

      Adri AlvarezAdri Alvarez5 gün önce
  • I just wrote a whole paper about this, and what you guys said is exactly what i talked about

    prodandmullenprodandmullenAylar önce
  • Sorry buddy but the complexity of the story kills this movie. A bit like mission impossible, it's an impossible mission to understand.

    Bernard Guy NunnsBernard Guy NunnsAylar önce
  • Old Joe explains it. With: Time travel doesn't make sense and trying to explain it would see him being there all day with diagrams. So that was easy enough for me. Forget the paradox's and plot holes. Enjoy the story.

    HorusHeresy1982HorusHeresy19822 aylar önce
  • How about the fact that mob killed Joe's wife in the futhure where it is not allowed to kill people? They broke the main rule, that could've been solved by sending his wife to the past also.

    Victor CVictor C2 aylar önce
  • Time travel just isn’t possible. Or at least it wouldn’t work, as changing something in the past would cause you not to do it, and therefore you are in a time loop. Doing something in the future has a 1 in a million chance of doing anything as the timeline constantly changes, so the future you change is only one possible future.

    Sharko Fish mouthSharko Fish mouth2 aylar önce
  • It shows old Joe knocking out young Joe. Young Joe goes back to get his money, falls and blacks out. Then it cuts to him closing his loop and the film carries on. This didn't scan to me and felt like it was cheating. It was purely to force the set up for the rest of the film, enforced by how quickly the film wants to fast forward the next 30 years. How did he kill one old Joe yet let another run? 2 old Joes? Cheating, and brushed over really quickly lol.

    GrailGrail2 aylar önce
  • This is for those that say there is a plot hole when there’s not. -Old joe and young joe are in a endless cycle. -old joe creates the rainmaker by killing the rainmakers mother. -by young joe killing himself, he prevented the rainmaker from ever happening. -Finally => there’s only one time line, the reason young joe didn’t try to reason with old joe is because Old Joe already had his mindset..(being the only way to stop the rainmaker was to kill him, he didn’t know by not killing the mother would prevent it... that’s why young Joe had an epiphany “I saw it”. Then he goes on to end the cycle.

    SAMUEL MONREALSAMUEL MONREAL2 aylar önce
    • But when young Joe "saw it" then old Joe would "saw it" too... cause their minds are connected. You can't even take "time travel is not the main point, it's the sacrifice story" argument seriously then, lol.

      Roman BirovRoman Birov25 gün önce
  • despite the inconsistencies Looper is one of my favorite movies

    Dieuson OctaveDieuson Octave2 aylar önce
  • Many worlds theory allows for it. No problem.

    renesoncerenesonce2 aylar önce
  • Yeah, um, what?

    I am NobodyI am Nobody3 aylar önce
  • Looper's time travel works more like magic. I found the movie was ruined by its own time travel not making sense. If a young me loses an arm, then the old me hasn't had that arm for 30 years. In Looper the young & old me lose the arm at the sametime. Which means the old me had had the arm for thirty years and therefore isn't the young me.

    booboobumbumbooboobumbum3 aylar önce
    • @Devesh KS And therefore his history is changed. And couldn't climb the fence that took two hands, as historically he only now had one. It's bad sci-fi - I like brick & knives out, but RJ should stay away from scifi, he's too caught up in the gimmick

      booboobumbumbooboobumbum2 aylar önce
    • The person who cuts the arm actually alters the history of *old me*.

      Devesh KSDevesh KS2 aylar önce
    • I disagree. In the movie *until the young me looses an arm, the old me doesn't looses it* and the moment the young me looses the arm, the old me looses it too without any wounds which means he actually lost it long ago and the wounds have healed.

      Devesh KSDevesh KS2 aylar önce
  • Something I love about this movie that I only realized watching the diner scene back in this video - Rian does a good job playing with the idea that time travel would make you go crazy if your memories weren't actually memories and just eventualities. I think time travel in fiction is best if it has confusing paradoxes because you then have the opportunity to show how that would affect the mind of a time traveller. In 12 Monkeys Bruce Willis played a character living between two times who that happens to exactly. It's a brilliant movie and I bet this is Rian's nod to it

    yellow curtainsyellow curtains3 aylar önce
  • I checked out of this movie when he and Sara just suddenly started having sex.

    NationalismNationalism3 aylar önce
  • Looper, the time paradox

    Lian JuLian Ju3 aylar önce
  • When old Joe's goes back in time, he shares the present time with young joe, therefore what young joe does becomes old Joe's memories. The future is a variable as long as they both exist in the present.

    Kingdom CitizenshipKingdom Citizenship3 aylar önce
  • the "easy" argument for why old Joe disappears is that he IS part of young Joes timeline, thus suffering the same consequences as young Joe. That's why his memories are in fluctuation. He is inherently linked to young Joe by being the same person(genetically) in the same timeline(physically).

    Patrick SalzerPatrick Salzer3 aylar önce
  • Fun fact: Joe sex with own mother

    Rahul KushwahaRahul Kushwaha4 aylar önce
  • Looper could of been the next Back to the future trilogy man.....

    1MicrosoftCPU1MicrosoftCPU4 aylar önce
    • nah he definitely does not want to eff up his own shit more than it already is but someone elses saga .. thats the shit he lives for!

      DAY KINGDAY KINGAylar önce
  • Does make sense when the together their memories sync when they’re not together is a different story because there’s not that kind of togetherness a separate timeframe even though it’s a different time you know - Enjoyable movie, must watch!

    Gayle CheungGayle Cheung4 aylar önce
  • I wouldn't say the pass or fail is the audience believing it or not. That would mean that a movie's rules are there just to trick people and that if it succeeds at tricking certain people it is a good movie. A film can break its own rules... but it shouldn't. But also, if it does there can be other qualities that make the movie good. Looper is either a bad film ruined by its rules and the ignoring of them or it is a good film despite those same rules and their treatment, depending on how much importance we give to different aspects of it.

    FirmusFirmus4 aylar önce
  • Overthinking this subject is wild. Its easier to just enjoy the movie.

    Mario SanchezMario Sanchez4 aylar önce
  • Just stfu

    Corey KCorey K4 aylar önce
  • no. i immediately noticed the inconsistency when i saw the movie and it immediately annoyed me. I really hate this movie.

    Bear SheperdBear Sheperd5 aylar önce
  • The OG guy that killed his mom was the vagrant that young joe scares off. I watched this last night and the tangent begins when his friend fails to end his loop so young joe looses his only friend and it changes his destiny so that he meet his future wife and ends up going back to try to save her. Remember that this all started with a song sang to a child by his mother which is a primary theme in the story.

    Dylan WintersteenDylan Wintersteen5 aylar önce
  • Excellent analysis, thanks for the video.

    geotechmsgeotechms5 aylar önce
  • Haven't seen this film in years, but re-visiting after Knives Out to see some of Rian's early work. The way I initially read it was that when Old Joe escapes, that creates a new, separate timeline. And it is this new timeline, one of an infinite number of possible futures, that happen. We as viewers just happen to be seeing this one. The reason Old Joe vanishes when Young Joe kills himself is because this is a NEW timeline. The moment Old Joe made his choice to fight back and escape, a new timeline or universe was created. Young Joe is part of that new timeline, as is everyone else- they aren't connected to the past anymore. So, when Young Joe kills himself, it makes sense for Old Joe to die- they are both in this timeline together, in the new possibility that was made. Basically- every decision you make creates a new universe. I turned left on the street today, but there are an infinite number of other timelines that exist where I turned right, or kept going straight, or turned around, or stopped to tie my shoe... And on and on.

    Rebecca GrallaRebecca Gralla5 aylar önce
    • 100% agree, the flash from dc has the same type of idea in a way

      Adri AlvarezAdri Alvarez5 gün önce
    • i agree that there are infinitely many sequences of actions which can produce entirely different universes, but the problem with separating the two timelines is that in the movie they are both directly connected. the actions of young joe influence old joe's memory and his idealized "eventuality" with his wife. Old joe is motivated by a desire to avenge his wife and retain his memories of her, which means that young joe's timeline (and the infinitely many possibilities of actions that may take place) have bearing over the outcomes of Old joe's timeline and the actions that occurred there.

      Bunny42 GBunny42 G2 aylar önce
  • You're literally explaining why I love time travel movies. Because time travel is never really the focus of any story; it's a plot device. Take _Back to the Future_ for example. While that is a time travel movie, the time travel aspect of it is just a means to an end. The end being that BTTF is a movie about self-confidence and standing up for what's right. While Marty has to fix the mess he created when he interacted with his parents, his interactions with them also gave them the self-confidence they never had in the original time stream, as George originally became a nervous pushover and Lorraine originally became a resentful drunk. But by the end, in the pseudo restored timeline, George became a successful author who doesn't take shit from Biff and Lorraine approves of Marty's relationship with Jennifer.

    Cj KalandekCj Kalandek5 aylar önce
  • The rainmaker being the mobster doesn’t make sense, In the movie it said that time travel was invented, then immediately outlawed. And the rain maker was a powerful entity in which during the movie taking control of different areas of looper activity, and after doing so closed the loops of those areas. I only saw this movie once a while ago so forgive me if my memory doesn’t serve me right. But the looper activity is assumed to have taken place in a short time span, either 4-8 months after time travel was outlawed, and the rainmaker also takes control in this time. In the movie the tk(telekinetic) kid was smart/powerful, and after witnessing the death of his mother devotes his time to invent time travel to prevent it, in which it immediately becomes outlawed and stolen by the mafia. To which the kid using his extraordinarily powerful tk starts to take over and stop what he has created which are the loopers, the same loopers that eventually create him. That’s my theory as to what happens in terms of the rainmakers storyarc, as I feel the name fits the kids description from his tk abilities and his high inteligencias to invent time travel. This is also why the people involved with looper activity also identified the kid as the rainmaker and why the mother already knew about the people trying to kill her son as she said in the film multiple have tried. It’s pretty much impossible to say that the kid was not the rainmaker but it makes more sense to stack on the fact that he himself invented time travel. Which gives his motive to take control and close the loops during the movie.

    MatoPotatoMatoPotato5 aylar önce
    • @DAY KING He might have just thought that he could predict and prepare for any event, and his motivation to change the past might have clouded his judgement. But even then I think my theory holds true, I havent seen an explanation that I believe more

      MatoPotatoMatoPotatoAylar önce
    • but why would he create something that makes him vulnerable?

      DAY KINGDAY KINGAylar önce
  • I think it also settles the killing baby Hitler argument. If you go back to before someone has done something, they aren't guilty of the thing they will do. They haven't done it yet. They can still change. It would be wrong to kill an innocent child or any innocent person for that matter on the presumption that they will commit a horrible act, when in reality you can't actually know for certain that they will.

    Ks HutterKs Hutter5 aylar önce
  • Bro idk about you but the whole mess of plot holes in this movie bothered the living crap outta me and cheapened the message. If you don't give a shit about the sci-fi premise framing the film then just make an urban drama and avoid taking me for a ride with building an incoherent world even you don't get. The only reason why the movie doesn't fall fully flat is that it looks good, it's well acted, and a paradox free time travel movie is virtually impossible to do so most people are willing to cut it some slack.

    DonVoghanoDonVoghano5 aylar önce
  • 2:50 maybe he disappears but appears somewhere else

    Lucky GuyLucky Guy5 aylar önce
  • People who actually care about the mechanics and logistics of time travel are boring. Hate to break it to ya

    JCJC5 aylar önce
  • If they cannot kill anyone in the future how come they can kill Joe’s wife?

    Cesar DiazCesar Diaz6 aylar önce
    • They can't. Killing the wife was a mistake which is why they burned down the house to make it look like an accident. Rian explains this in an interview

      JCJC5 aylar önce
  • No, it's about poor lazy writing used only to serve the authors ego, just like in The Last Jedi.

    Micheal LucasMicheal Lucas6 aylar önce
  • Oh dear, no! The movie is about a young man who is ignorant of the facts. In the USA, 75% of all children - regardless of race - brought up by a single parent end up with a criminal record. Mothers account for 86% of single parents. It appears a child doesn't need its mother. Unless she's a look out or getaway driver, etc. Added to this mix is that the child already has psychological problems and a penchant for violent tantrums. Better to shoot the kid, his mother and anyone else that got in his way. Not that it matters as time travel is patently impossible.

    Mark CynicMark Cynic6 aylar önce
  • That is the intention: this is a common time paradox that lots of people like to use. It was used in The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. In the story, Link travels seven years in the future by pulling the Master Sword out of its pedestal. Placing it back has him travel back 7 years in the past. As an adult, in the future, there is a windmill in a village. Inside the windmill, there is a man named... uh... Windmill Man. The Windmill Man tells you that the windmill has been broken since a young boy played a song on his ocarina, seven years ago. He teaches you the song that the boy played. Now, Link travels seven years back in time, goes to the very village he spoke to Windmill Man in so he can play the song in the windmill. Young Link is the catalyst for Windmill Man teaching the song to Adult Link, even though technically speaking, Young Link did not teach Windmill Man the song until after Windmill man teaches it to Adult Link. Pretty wierd, eh? This is pretty similar to what happens in this movie.

    The#1ZeldaFanThe#1ZeldaFan6 aylar önce
    • @Ronin Kelly oh, well, not necessarily. it's not going BACK to square one, it's going FORWARD to the event of square one. it's not a loop, each subsequent adult link for different timelines will be taught the song for the first time ALWAYS

      The#1ZeldaFanThe#1ZeldaFan6 aylar önce
    • @Ronin Kelly y e s

      The#1ZeldaFanThe#1ZeldaFan6 aylar önce
    • So what you're saying is... Its a loop

      Ronin KellyRonin Kelly6 aylar önce
  • This is such an important video. Nearly every movie, especially Sci Fi, has major plot holes if you pick it apart. The truth is, plot holes matter when the audience isn't sold on the story the movie tells us.

    SchwegburtSchwegburt6 aylar önce
  • Predestination is better time travel movie .everything makes sense.

    HARDAWINDER SINGH DEOSIHARDAWINDER SINGH DEOSI6 aylar önce
  • I disagree because I hated the movie and couldn't look passed the rule breaking

    Ceara !Ceara !6 aylar önce
  • I believed it turned my head into a fried egg!

    Ev MEv M6 aylar önce
  • Who told you all this stuff anyway? Are you a screenwriter?

    Mr McDonaldMr McDonald6 aylar önce
  • Since when do people care about fucking rules in movies? What is this, a fucking classroom?

    Sal ReyesSal Reyes7 aylar önce
  • What about the wife that got murdered? They go through all that trouble to send people in time just so their bodies can be properly disposed of, then BOOOM! They ice the wife, no big deal?

    Davey RobinsonDavey Robinson7 aylar önce
    • It was a mistake lol that's why the house was burnt down

      JCJC5 aylar önce
Looper - Can A Film Break Its Own Rules?